Reaction
THANK YOU for all your comments on my Goals and Standards posts. I don’t normally write a new post in reaction to my old posts, but I think these two posts and the subsequent reactions merit a follow-up posting.
There was general agreement about life goals … that our life goals really have to do with things we do everyday (spend time with family, be good to our bodies, relax, etc.). My very sage father wrote me an email (he is a regular reader of this blog and sometimes calls me out on what I write) with some strong words counter to what I said. He said:
… focusing exclusively on what’s important here and now — and they are important — squeezes out what is also important down the road. As well, it forecloses options down the road. To say that you would die a happy and fulfilled person is only one half of the equation. What you don’t contemplate in this characterization is the counter-factual — how you would feel if you had lived your life somewhat differently. Going back to school, having children, changing a job today because of its potential for tomorrow are all instances of investments today for returns tomorrow. They often represent deferred gratifications. I think every life should have some of this, and to proclaim a disinterest is to rationalize non-investment behavior (what the economists call consumption behavior). In reality, most of us take our resources — time, money, energy — and use some of it for consumption today and some of it for investment today to enable a better lifestyle tomorrow.
Oh to be smart like him, eh? While I’d argue that people do make decisions about school and kids and jobs for happiness and fulfillment today just as much as they do for security down the road, I do agree with most everything else he said. Balance is definitely the key. So, maybe I need to restate a summary to that post to say while we should always have our eye on longer-term goals, we shouldn’t dismiss those shorter-term goals that might derive equal fulfillment. Additionally, some of the things that fulfill us today can and should be considered life-long goals.
Now, onto the dating post. I can’t say I was all that surprised that many of those who left comments still expect the man to pay for the first date. But, many of the comments also didn’t necessarily address the greater point of my post. If you expect guys to always pay on the first date, then do you also expect equalities in the workplace and within society as a whole? If so, that’s where I just can’t agree with you.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s great to feel wanted and pursued. And I am all for chivalry. I love it when someone, ANYONE, opens a door for me. But, I also open doors for others. And it’s not just for the old lady with a cane. I give good karma out to the world hoping (knowing?) it will come back to me. And that definitely carries over into the dating world.
Lisa suggested that the comparison of dating lives and work lives isn’t a fair one. She said:
I personally feel that what a woman does or expects in the workplace should have no bearing on her expectations of a relationship. A relationship is not just another job, we can’t approach it with the same attitude that we approach work. Someone that’s clawing her way to the top of the corporate ladder shouldn’t feel that she has to claw her way to the top of her relationship or family either. To me, it’s an apples and oranges comparison.
Fair enough. Or is it? I mean, some people don’t approach work as “just another job” … in fact, some people are incredibly passionate about their careers. And so, I might argue that we absolutely can approach relationships with similar expectations as we do in the workplace. My point is not that we need to be abrasive or aggressive when it comes to dating. We absolutely can allow men to pay. But, it’s the idea we expect that of them and hold them to some lesser degree if they don’t.
Again, thanks for the humor. The discussion. The dissenting views. I love that some of my posts push you to think outside your own lines. And in return, I promise that I’m digesting everything you say, in agreement and otherwise!
October 8th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Aw, I feel all special and stuff! :-) I defintely see what you’re saying and agree we shouldn’t expect it, and we definitely shouldn’t pass judgment on it. I should mention that I come to my stance from a somewhat unique position; my husband and I work together, so we have a clear delineation between work and our relationship.
I’m so taking your dads email, and your comments, to heart! Living for today has been on my mind a lot lately, and I needed a reminder to find balance.
(I typed this on a phone, so hopefully it makes some kind of sense)
October 8th, 2009 at 8:20 am
I love that your dad weighs in and emails you. It is about striking a balance and I do try hard to do that. As for the standards and dating, I still think that women shouldn’t expect it and shouldn’t judge a man for not paying. I struggle when my friends get mad or talk about how their date didn’t pay on the first date or expects the female to pick up the tab every once in a while. I suppose for myself, I think those ideals are old fashioned. And like you, I hold the door for anyone, not just old ladies with canes.
October 8th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Like I said in yesterday’s post on my blog, I do contemplate the long-term goals and think about my future and I do so with the idea that some of my “here & Now,” goals and lifestyle choices will help me out with that. (I mean, I am living at home! At 26! With my parents! Why? So that I can save up a ton of money and be more “comfortable,” as my life progresses as well as invest in a house at some point.) Other short term goals are for my general health, fitness & well being which again, I would hope carry on into my old age. Your dad is definitely a wise man and I hope I can meet him someday!
Workplace inequality. Sigh. I don’t know where to begin other than men assume I make the coffee, copies & fax things. (Do I? Yes, but I don’t like the assumption. Not to mention that other people in my office, men included, are just as capable.) I am talked down to and treated as a lesser person often and it’s quite frustrating. I do my best to politely demand respect, prove my expertise, work as a team but it’s really hard when there are a few men who feel threatened by a woman in the workplace and will do anything they can to dash her hopes and cause trouble for her.
October 8th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Your dad is scary wise. And I don’t know how I feel about all that other stuff. I want to say that I want all that equality. And I also want to say that it’s always been my dream to be a stay at home mom protected from things like work and financial decisions and all that. What can I say? I take feminism back like 40 years in my head?
October 8th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Wow. Your Dad makes me all swoony and starry eyed.
October 8th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Reading your dad’s response totally gives me insight into you. :-) What a wicked smart dad you have.
October 8th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Does your Dad have a blog? Good lord that’s insightful!
Just as an aside, sometimes I come to your posts in my morning (or afternoon!) and wonder at how many convictions you hold. You just seem to be so decisive on everything, and have an opinion on everything!
I know that, eventually, when I meet you in person I’ll have a characture of a Nilsa in my mind that you’ll have to arm wrestle with a little. I’m looking forward to that =)
October 8th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
I think I have a crush on your dad!
He is right that people should not focus on small immediate goals alone. If they do, they might not end up having things like college funds for their children, or the patience to pursue a career with a long apprenticeship. Then there are big problems that need people with vision to address them – things like climate change or segregation don’t get fixed by people just taking small steps in their own backyard.