Accidents
There’s been a trend over the past few years in the Chicagoland area (and elsewhere across the United States). The installation of Red Light Cameras at major intersections or those intersections with a high number of accidents.
If a motorist enters an intersection as a light turns red (or is already red), flash bulbs go off in all directions and the traffic camera takes still photos and video of the driver. It allows cities to ticket drivers (actually, they ticket the vehicle, since they can’t prove who is driving the vehicle) without a police presence.
The idea behind installation of these cameras is, if drivers know these cameras exist, they will avoid running red lights and thus avoid causing accidents. (Red light offenders are the cause of over 20% of traffic accidents, according to some sources.)
I’ve got to admit, I have really mixed feelings about this new technology.
I am first in line to yell at idiots who do not pay attention to traffic signals. And I completely agree that running red lights is incredibly dangerous and puts other drivers and pedestrians at risk.
However, as someone who spent a year working in auto claims for a major insurance company, I learned quickly about accidents in intersections. Just because my light is green doesn’t mean I have the right to enter the intersection. It is my individual responsibility to make sure the intersection is clear before entering it.
In other words, when my light turns green, I am responsible for looking to the left and right to make sure it is OK to enter the intersection. If I see someone barreling towards the intersection and am unsure they’re going to stop? It’d be in my own best interest to wait and see.
And the insurance companies agree. There were plenty of cases I saw where an accident occurred because someone ran a red light, however the person with green was found partly responsible because they entered the intersection without making sure it was safe to do so.
Now, if red light cameras forced everyone to drive more safely, I think I’d be fine with their presence. But, the fact of the matter is, they’ve merely changed the pattern of driving. One of two things occur frequently now at these intersections that I never used to see.
(1) Drivers speed up from 30 mph to 50mph to make sure they make it through the intersection before the light turns red. And, (2) Drivers slam on their brakes (regardless of whether there is other traffic behind them) in order to avoid being caught mid-intersection when the light is red. And that’s not to mention all the other drivers who now assume the intersections are safe, due to the cameras, and who enter the intersection without looking.
I can’t tell you how many near-miss accidents I’ve seen as a result of these cameras. There have been protests staged around the country by people claiming these cameras actually increase the rates of accidents in these intersections.
I haven’t yet made up my mind regarding use of these red light cameras. I get there is a need for people to be better drivers. But, if a technology (costing tax payers money!) that’s meant to improve safety does nothing to improve it or even makes it worse, then I’m not sure it’s worth the investment.
Have you seen these cameras? Ever been caught by one? What are your thoughts on use of them on our city streets?
February 18th, 2010 at 4:57 am
We have them at quite a lot of junctions in the UK, although im not sure how much help they are. Us Brits are so ‘controlled’ with lights that not many people go through on a red.. thats what the orange light is for!
February 18th, 2010 at 5:28 am
What smidge said! We very rarely see people running red lights here and if they do it you can be sure they’re doing it on purpose.
The most annoying thing we have are general speed cameras everywhere. No matter what the actual speed limits there are a massive number of people who slow to 30mph (the standard limit for built up areas) to go through them which is much more dangerous than going at the speed limit or similar.
February 18th, 2010 at 7:40 am
Well, don’t forget that in addition to ostensibly making intersections safer, red light cameras are also a source of revenue. In Chicago, at least, I know they’ve installed them on a lot of intersections that get heavy rush hour traffic to discourage people from pushing the yellow, going into the intersection when they can’t get all the way through, etc- things that clog traffic. And if the camera sees a car in the intersection, it snaps the license plate and sends a ticket to the registered owner of that car automatically- no cop required to write the ticket. So there’s a safety angle, but I’m sure the city was thinking about money, too.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:00 am
We do have cameras around here and I don’t mind them. They don’t change the way I drive and I don’t give them a single thought. In general I am a overly safe, granny driver. I tell all my friends -- Make fun of me if you want, but in my 20 years of driving, I have never had an accident or a ticket and I have been able to stop with plenty of time when something happens ahead of me. (knock on wood)
There is the whole “big brother” argument, but I think safety overrides a privacy compromise in this instance. If you don’t do anything wrong, big brother won’t get you. However, if the cameras actually do more harm than good, then they clearly are not a good trafficking tool.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:32 am
J was caught on one of those and here is where I think it was unfair. I don’t know if this is just the way most Chicago lights are now, or if they have changed the ones with the cameras, or all of them. But the yellow lights with the cameras in Chicago are VERY SHORT. I heard on a radio programs that indeed they are just on for a few seconds before the red light goes on. In the suburbs, yellow lights last for a long time and if you get to an intersection and the light turns yellow, you have time to (presumably) safely get through the intersection without needing to abruptly slam on the brakes at the last minute. In Chicago, at least at this intersection, this wasn’t the case. And because J tried to get through a yellow light that suddenly turned red, he was caught on camera and fined somewhere like $100. I guess the other guy in the video (that they so kindly provide online for you to watch your sin in action) must have been fined too. I’m thinking Chicago is making a killing off of this. However, I have also heard this technology is not cheap. Something tells me they will be able to offset the costs though.
So I say, ok for the cameras, but make the yellow light time longer to be safer. Or at least post signs warning the stupid suburban drivers that yellow really means red, so just stop anyway.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:39 am
We have this technology all through New Zealand and Australia. How it works here is they take the photo as you cross the line, then take it again a few seconds later. If you’ve stopped in the second photo they assume you accidentally crossed the line and you arent ticketted. Most of the time the camera boxes are empty but you cant tell so people dont take that chance! They dont bother me. I figure I’ll drive in a way I think is right and if I end up with a ticket then I deserved it.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:24 am
I don’t mind them at all. I tend to knwo what intersections around me have them and it makes me more aware as I approach. I agree with you that some drivers now change their tactics, I have seen the “race to beat the red” especially on some major streets.
I am ok with them because it does free up the police to concentrate on other criminal activities. Plus it is revenue source for Chicago and we need some money coming in!
February 18th, 2010 at 10:01 am
I feel like you do--mixed emotions. Sometimes people seem to need something that helps them do the right thing, and these cameras could be that something. The problem is that anyone who actually needs something to help him do the right thing is likely to try to find a way around doing the right thing--like rushing through the light or slamming on the brakes, without any consideration for drivers behind him.
Mostly, I think it feels like Big Brother, though, and that makes my stomach feel queasy.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:08 am
We had them. Well, we still have them, but they don’t work anymore. They were deemed illegal after about a year, due to the fact that it IS hard to prove who is driving, and the tickets were issued to whoever the vehicle was registered to. There were lawsuits all over the place.
The city had originally said that the cameras were installed in high traffic intersections with a high rate of accidents. But once someone actually researched that statement, it was discovered that the cameras were actually installed in intersections with a high rate of red light runners, but relatively low rates of accidents. The city made a killing before they were forced to shut the cameras off.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:09 am
I agree with Smidge -- I only visit the UK every couple of years but the drivers there seem to be way more obedient of traffic rules. Here it seems like it’s almost a competition across the nation to see who can get through as many red lights as possible accident-free. And I don’t get it, it’s not like you’re going to get there any faster, because your next light will be GUARANTEED to be red. I like the idea of these cameras, and also of raising awareness that even if it is green it’s still your responsibility to make sure the intersection’s clear. I don’t drive, but I learned this from Sweet while sitting at a green one day wondering why we were the only people not moving, and then being taught about clear intersections :) I got me a Safety Boy!
February 18th, 2010 at 10:10 am
We have them here in StL at several major (and not so major) intersections. I also always check to make sure it’s clear to go before it’s green (a practice which seems to anger the drivers behind me) because I’ve seen a lot of people run red lights at a lot of different intersections.
I have mixed feelings about these as well. Somehow I feel like they are a creepy invasion of privacy, but at the same time I guess bad drivers should have some sort of consequence but I often wonder why it can’t be a cop. I know a lot of the tickets in StL go unpaid AND it’s hard to prove who was driving the car so it’s created a problem for the traffic courts. Doesn’t seem to be generating revenue in the way they had hoped.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:12 am
It wholly depends on the decision-making process behind the cameras.
Some communities installed them at intersections where the right-turn accidents were high and the numbers have, in fact, decreased as a result.
If they were smart, they also negotiated a flat fee with the red-light camera operator so that the company isn’t inclined to try to ticket for every little thing like they would if they were paid on a per-ticket basis.
These communities also would have the cameras installed on the company’s dime (most of them are as the companies receive their money based on a percentage cost for the tickets; so far as I know, most communities pay zero or close to zero for the installation of the cameras).
And, in all honesty, the majority of the intersections where I’ve seen these cameras installed are ones where the drivers already drive like assholes anyway. The cameras aren’t making it worse. Many of these intersections are ones where they drive up on the easement to get through to a right-hand turn, or they’re looking at oncoming traffic instead of pedestrians in the crosswalk or they are part of a line of five or six cars that go through after the light has turned yellow.
Me? I’m all for these cameras. Once you get accustomed to that bright mother of a flash that goes off. The first time I saw that happen, it threw me off. I had no idea what it was for.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:14 am
I guess what I’m saying is that it’s hard to make blanket statements about the red-light cameras as the intent and usage varies from town to town.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:16 am
I don’t like them. I’m terrified of the light changing, so I’m one of those people that totally slow down when approaching the intersection so I can totally tell if it’s going to change before I enter it. It pisses off the people behind me, I know! I KNOW! But I can’t help it! Sigh.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:50 am
I actually agree with you. We have a few around here and I’ve not been busted by one. I don’t run red lights though. I think they’re more dangerous though. I think too many people are like you said, slamming on their breaks right at the light and who knows how many rear end accidents have happened because of that.
February 18th, 2010 at 11:18 am
I have mixed feelings about these. However when you live in a small town and there’s only one stop light in town its not a big concern (ok so when you add the stop lights getting on and off the state route there are 3 lights total). None of the towns in my little Ohio Valley have cameras on them. Most of them are set on delays, so when one light changes to red, there is a 5 second delay before the crossing traffic light changes to green. Ususally its enough of a delay that any one who did run the red light is through and the intersection is clear.
February 18th, 2010 at 11:21 am
hmmm. im not sure my thoughts on them? for all i know we have them in downtown boston. i just don’t know about them, if we do? i can see the good and the bad to them though.
February 18th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
You make a lot of good points. If it does in fact increase accidents then I do not see their worth. We have them in Philly, but I have not seen the behavior you mentioned. The red light cameras go off a lot still but I think they are a deterrent for running the light. As a driver in Philadelphia I have to deal with bad drivers all the time and its so frustrating to see these people on the roads and causing possible accidents with me or someone else just because they want to save a second or two on their travel time. I wish they also issued camera tickets for people driving the wrong way on a one way, stopping in the middle of the road to unload their car, and not using turn signals. All of which happens frequently. Ah well, guess thats what city driving is about take it or leave it.
February 18th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
we have those around dc (and had them in va -- well, they’re still there, just not in use!) and i can’t say it’s changed my driving habits at all. i mean, i speed up to get through yellow lights, but it’s because i don’t want to get pulled over, not because i’m afraid i’ll get photographed ;-)
February 18th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
We’ve got some red light cameras here but not on many intersections. I’m fairly neutral on the subject (probably because I’ve never been busted by one.)
February 18th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
You really are a wealth of information my friend! I have never thought about these cameras much besides from laughing at the pictures of my friends caught running them!
Ryan is a pretty good driver but sometimes when something scary happens and I point out that maybe he should have slowed down or whatnot, he’ll defend himself with the ubiquitous “I had the right of way.” I’m always like, you KNOW that is silly, drive defensively. Again, he knows this but in the moment I think his ego is bruised and the natural reaction is to get defensive.
February 18th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
They actually have them all over here (in Virginia) and I don’t think drivers worry about them so much. They don’t quickly hit the breaks and cause accidents that I’m aware of because of these cameras. They know they are there, stop when they should stop.
Then again Virginia police are very strict. Also what Alice said.
I will say this though, as a pedestrian, I can’t count the number of times I’ve almost been hit by a car that runs a red light. I’m not kidding. If I don’t look left or right, then I could be run over. That is just ridiculous.
February 18th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
I grew up in a small town where red light running just didn’t happen. Then I moved to Las Vegas where it is a way of life. Seriously. It is unbelievable how late people will run a light. I got very used to making sure the intersection was clear before proceeding because light runners caused all sorts of terrible accidents. They never installed the cameras though, I think because it is just such a way of life there — something about the 45+ mph speed makes people push the limit instead of slow down. Also, the yellow lights were the longest I’ve ever seen.
Where I live now there are no cameras and people still run the light, but it’s nothing like it was in Vegas. I think the cameras are a pain and I’m not sure they are all that effective. I remember hearing years ago that when DC installed them, they had supposedly shortened the yellow lights to increase revenue. And another time I heard that if you are in an intersection when the light is yellow and then it turns red, it won’t actually get you. I wonder if either of those things are true. :)
I see where they’re coming from with them, but they freak me out even though I don’t run red lights. I think there is probably a better way to encourage safe driving.
February 18th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Ever on the lookout for the government’s increasing surveillance of us, I am firmly against these cameras. I see them not as a desire to have safer roads, but a desire to have increased revenue for when cops aren’t around to ticket. If there is an identifiable intersection where people are always running the light, put a cop there during rush hour. That’ll do better than a camera.
My brother was caught by one and his wheels were a few *inches* from entering the intersection when the camera went off. When I asked him why he cut it so close, he said that he thought it would be MORE dangerous to slam on his brakes because someone was tailgating him. And for him trying to be safe he got slapped with a $300 fine.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Out here, the cameras are installed, but nothing comes of them at the moment due to lawsuits against the city for their use (privacy violation lawsuits, I believe). Anyway, one thing they found in the brief time they were used is that accidents actually INCREASED with their use, because whereas people used to scream through the yellow light, now they would slam on their brakes from full speed to miss the camera--and cause a rear-end collision. Granted, that just proves that people were running yellows and reds before, but interesting anyway.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
I second Ginger: I also have heard arguments that the flashes from the camera have been an additional CAUSE of accidents. Lose/lose :(
February 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
i think the cameras are simply a way for the city to get revenue, they don’t make people drive safer. i’d say 90% of red light runners do so unintentionally, so they would’t check to see if the intersection has a camera before doing so anyway! and your point about near-accidents caaused by the cameras is spot on
February 18th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I have more thoughts about how insurance companies assign blame for accidents than the red light cameras, but that is certainly due to recent personal experience and I’ll spare you.
It seems that the cameras have been in place long enough to do a good, impartial study to determine whether they actually prevent accidents. I would simply base a decision on the results. But maybe I’ve been in statistics class too long and no longer appreciate subjective probability.
As for causing someone to slam on their brakes so that the car behind them runs into them, we should also remember that it is the responsibility of the driver in the follow car to leave enough stopping space in front of them no matter what. I’ve been in a pile up where I left enough room in front of me and stopped in time, but the car behind me did not. (But that was way back in high school lest you think I really am THAT accident prone.)
February 18th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
I JUST experienced this myself earlier this week. My boyfriend lets me drive his car to and from my job in the burbs and on my way home on Monday I found myself entering the intersection as the light became yellow. I freaked out. I gunned it. And then slammed on my breaks on the other side of the intersection where the light was already red. I was more focused on getting out of the intersection than whether a light flashed, but I’m dreading the wait and see if one will come in the mail. My boyfriend was very understanding and says we’ll fight it if one comes, but I still feel bad because it’s not my car and I’m a better driver than that. No accidents. No tickets. Ever. Photo-enforced intersections are NOT my friend!
February 18th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
I think the cameras are meant for good (and revenue) but are just making people react stupidly, as you mentioned. But, then again, everyone’s an awful driver, even when they think they aren’t. Driving takes too much concentration to be perfect 100% of the time.
When I was home my mom got in an accident at an intersection because someone ran a red well past it turning red and she hit them. His insurance company recognized it was his fault, thankfully. I am surprised her t-boning him didn’t kill him.
February 18th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
There’s one on the way to the dog park, and I have to say, I’m more careful there. I don’t speed on my way up there because I don’t want to get caught in a position where I can’t safely stop but also shouldn’t really be going. I generally think the concept is a good one, but really it depends on what studies show. I would think there would be some studies out by now.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
I also have mixed feelings about these. I don’t think they have them in Minneapolis, or if they do, I am not aware of them. I think I’d see the same behavior you’ve seen (speeding up or braking way too fast).
I kind of feel like they put these cameras up so they can ticket more people and raise revenue from the fees. I don’t know that people will drive more safely as a result of these cameras…
February 18th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
My boss actually got caught by one of these when she was visiting I think.
I see your latter points about the measures drivers are taking to avoid the lights. I think I agree with them in principle, but you’re right that they shouldn’t cause further risk.
February 18th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
From what I know and haven’t heard of, we don’t have these cameras here in Utah anywhere. For a while, we had the photo cop, which was an unmanned vehicle that would take photos of those who went over the speed limit and would mail a ticket to the address on file of the offending cars’ license plate.
These devices sound like they may not be the most effective way of solving traffic issues. However, for revenue generation, they may be one of the greatest inventions made for lazy officers of the law.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:39 am
I’ve never seen anything like that in England, but I completely agree that they could be the cause of more accidents because people know they are there. It either makes people more careful which is dangerous, or more careless which is also dangerous -- I just don’t think they sound like a good idea at all!
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
this is exactly how it is down here in arizona. not to mention, the average speed down here is 45mph…on residential streets. then, on the intersections where people know there aren’t any cameras, they will just speed through even after the light turns red if they know the guys who have green aren’t going to go right away because they’re looking for idiots racing through. ugh, people are so stupid.