Future
Not too long ago, I wrote a post about neighborhoods. I happened to read a few articles devoted to the idea of neighborhoods and began to think about the things I love about my very own neighborhood. Then, last week, I read a quick story about cities versus suburbs … and which will “win” in the coming years. While the story itself wasn’t terribly fascinating (there’s mixed feelings on the subject, no surprise there), it still got my wheels spinning.
Why, you ask? Because, over the past year, I’ve been thinking about the city versus suburbs debate. A lot. More so now that we’re expecting Grasshopper. And it’s tearing me up inside.
It’s necessary to insert a brief background here to give you context for my thoughts. I have always been a city girl. The area where I grew up in St. Louis was very urban. My brother and I learned how to be assertive from a very early age. I went to school with a diverse group of kids from many different socio-economic backgrounds and many different ethnicities. I loved the energy and vibe that came with living in that kind of environment.
And then we moved. To a suburb of Boston. Where there were white picket fences to match all the lily white faces of the people who lived in that town. There was no diversity, no energy, not much of anything (besides a safe environment to raise kids and a great public school system – I can’t blame my parents for making that choice). Though, I quickly found my niche in that town, I never loved it.
The dichotomy of those experiences is largely why I chose to live in an urban center as an adult. I thrive on diversity. I yearn for the mixture of race and class. I love that I can find my place in a city of almost 3 million people. And I fear the demise of that lifestyle.
So, the answer is easy, right? Sweets and I love the city and will stay in the city forever. Why is this even a topic of concern? Because, we might want to own a house one day and we might not be able to live out that dream in the city. And that’s where my heartstrings get yanked around like a yo-yo on crack.
The day we moved into our condo, Sweets began pulling MLS listings for single family homes. I’m not kidding. And while I sometimes roll my eyes at his intense interest in real estate, his curiosity made us realize we’d have to make a lot of concessions to buy a single family home in the city. Compromises like any combination of the following:
- Location in neighborhoods that feel more like the suburbs, despite having city zip codes
- Older homes that need a lot of work
- Homes that only have 1 bathroom
- Lots that are located on busy streets
- Neighborhoods that are not located on any major subway or bus lines, making the purchase of a second car necessary
The list goes on, but I think you get the point. We’d have to give up a lot just to be able to say we own a house in the city. Over the past couple years, as Sweets has continued to investigate real estate options, we’ve come to one conclusion: If we want to own a single family home, given our must-haves for our next home, we will likely need to move to the suburbs (or win the lottery, but that would entail actually buying lottery tickets – ahem.).
And so, with sad faces and bruised egos, we have considered one (only one!) target suburb should we ever decide to move (and trust me, it’s not going to happen in the next few years – this is a long-term vision). Why are we so dour? Why does only one suburb make our cut?
Well, we’re self-admitted snobs when it comes to Chicago. Unlike other cities (I’m looking at you, Boston) where suburbs exist that have history and are diverse and interesting, I can think of one word that summarizes Chicago suburbs: vanilla. Most suburbs around here just aren’t that interesting (to us, I should add – that statement has a lot to do with our expectations and needs).
One reason I fear a move to the suburbs is it’s often equated with a loss of use of the city. Unlike most cities I know, MANY people in the Chicago suburbs hate coming into the city. It likely has a little to do with intimidation and a lot to do with absolutely horrible traffic. The fact is, traveling from the suburbs to the city is inconvenient, which means most suburbanites save trips to the city for special occasions … or worse, not at all.
It honestly breaks my heart. The city is our lifeline. I cannot imagine living somewhere where I’m surrounded by people who don’t utilize it, aren’t interested in exploring it and even badmouth it. The flip side is equally as horrifying … that our city friends will no longer find us convenient and will no longer come to visit us. What a loss!
Getting back to this one suburb we’ve considered. Well, there are actually two suburbs we’d consider. Both locations are on major train lines (both the Chicago subway system as well as the commuter train system). Both suburbs provide interesting commercial & retail centers that remind us of city neighborhoods. Both towns have diverse communities, which are as close to city life without actuallly living in the city. And both places are within earshot of the city, so it wouldn’t feel like we’ve completely abandoned the place we love.
We’ve narrowed it down to one of the two suburbs purely due to my work location. One suburb puts me closer to work; the other suburb would make my commute a nightmare. As I said before, we don’t know when or even if a move of this magnitude will take place. But, it’s definitely something we discuss from time to time. It’s something that remains on our radar.
Tell me why you live where you live (city versus suburb)? Why did you choose your location (proximity to work, ease of getting around, property values, etc.)? What variables might make you change locations from city to suburb or vice versa (change in job, addition of kids, empty nest from older kids moving out, etc.)?
August 31st, 2010 at 5:51 am
If it makes you feel any better, Katie and I are suburbanites that live for the city. We only wish we could get there more often. We have, in so far as we’re able, given up on driving in to the city. We’re intent in defeating the beast known as public transit. And we will do it. We love Chicago and wools have love to live there. But we are suburbanites.
Sure the suburbs are vanilla when compared to the big, bad city. But you’re comparing apples to oranges. They’re completely different and require different mindsets for survival. If you need an example of what I mean, just think in terms of driving… In the suburbs, you drive defensively (for the most part). But in the city, you have to drive offensively or you’ll never get where you need to be because everyone else will take advantage of your relative passivity. Get what I mean? And that’s just one example. In the city, you have everything within a couple blocks. In the suburbs, you may have to drive farther, but you have much better parking once you get there.
August 31st, 2010 at 5:52 am
I live in a rural area, by choice. It is 1 1/2 hrs from Cincy, Indy, or Dayton. Only 5 hrs from Chitown. I drive 4 min. to work. Have a veggie garden. Can walk on my road for 2 miles and not have a car pass me. It would be very hard for me to live in the city. I love driving into a city, but also love going back home.
August 31st, 2010 at 6:32 am
I grew up in the city just minutes from Boston and have stayed here for the ease of commuting but I love being able to escape to the fresh air to the north (northeast kingdom of Vermont) most weekends. If I’m in either place too long I yearn to get back to the other.
August 31st, 2010 at 6:50 am
I totally feel you. I try very hard to live in the present but I know there will come a day when a 1 bedroom in Brooklyn isn’t going to cut it… I don’t like thinking about that inevitable move, mostly because it makes me sad to think we will be living on the east coast still, but also because I can’t even fathom not living in a city.
August 31st, 2010 at 7:02 am
I have always lived in the suburbs. We chose this particular neighborhood because it is filled with kids, has people of all colors, and the school my kids go to has kids from just about every economic background. My kids didn’t realize how lucky and good they have it until they met some of their friends at school. That doesn’t sound worded quite right but I mean that my kids didn’t know that not everyone lives like us, has as much as we do. The neighborhood I grew up in was not like this. There was no diversity at all. Everyone was pretty much the same. I think maybe that is why I seek out people who are different from me. I want to know what or how other people do things because I know my way isn’t the only way, and a lot of times not even the best way to do things for me.
I think you will make the best choice for your family when the time is right. And I think given your passion for the city there is no way you will ever stop thinking the trip is worth it. If you don’t mind sharing, what suburbs are you leaning towards?
August 31st, 2010 at 7:28 am
I live in the burbs…not sure whether it’s the burbs of Annapolis or Baltimore, sort of 1/2 way in between. While I love having a single family home, driveway, yard for my dog, I luuuuuurve cities. Always have, but I have never lived in an urban area. Although not Baltimore City. No lurve there. I never go into Baltimore anymore, because I’m just not into it. There is no Charm in Charm City for me. So, as I get ready to move to Tampa in a few months, the choice will be more between Tampa proper and the burbs (closer to the beach). I have a list of cool US cities on my travel docket, including Chicago! Little city trips here and there help me get my fill of the urban “lifestyle” that I might one day achieve. Have a great week!
August 31st, 2010 at 7:51 am
sooo i’ve got a solution! move back to a suburb of boston! yeah!
;)
i live right outside the city (you know this already, but just chiming in). i like it’s proximity to the city, ease of getting in and out, and access to the major highways. it has both a city feel, and a suburban feel, where right down the road not a mile or so, is the safe little swanky town that houses lots of families. i’m happy where we are, for now. one day, i think we’d both like to move out of massachusetts, but at the same time, i can’t see being that far away from my mom, who i’m so close with, especially around baby time. so…. hmm. things that make you go hmm.
August 31st, 2010 at 8:03 am
I kind of have the best of both worlds right now. I’m near the city (can take a super short bus ride to get to a metro station, and am about a 10 minute drive to Old Town Alexandria) and live just outside the capital beltway (I’m within a quarter mile of the entrance), so I can get anywhere in a car pretty fast too.
My long term goal is to buy a townhouse or SFH somewhere around here. If I were to throw kids in the mix, I think I’d probably have to cast a wider net. My nightmare is to have to buy a place in Woodbridge (lots of families living there because it’s more affordable) and make the horrendous commute up here everyday. Yuck. Also, if there was some big change in job location I’d probably move just to make life easier, even if it meant moving to a place that is more ‘burbish. I’d miss living close to the city/culture/character though — that is for sure!
August 31st, 2010 at 8:45 am
I live in the suburbs, and I have always have. Of course, I live 15 minutes -- a little more with traffic -- outside of NYC. In my opinion I have the ideal living situation -- for me. I could NEVER live in the city. The noises and strangers and traffic and parking would drive me insane. I love the sense of community that the suburbs offers. I like that I know the majority of my neighbors (despite the fact that they tend to be white-washed). But living so close to the city, I am able to take advantage of all the good stuff the city has to offer.
August 31st, 2010 at 9:10 am
Such a great debate.
I grew up in the suburbs…but with the exception of a stint in Kansas, they were suburbs of major cities. So, I consider myself a city gal.
On my own, it took me awhile to move into Detroit proper, but now that I’ve done it, I love it. It comes with its nightmares — no good grocery stores in city limits, but we make do. I can walk to work, walk to the boyfriend’s, walk to restaurants/bars/library/drug store etc. etc. etc. It’s nice.
But. What about when boyfriend and I get married and want to buy? There are some awesome historic neighborhoods in the city. But, the schools tend to be rather crappy. City services are pretty ugly. Crime is an issue — and I will probably spend a lot of time home alone due to his work schedule.
So it would appear we’d be looking at the suburbs. But, it’s a hard decision. Now that I’m in the city, I hate to abandon it.
August 31st, 2010 at 9:36 am
Living in downtown STL is not an option for me currently since I don’t have the money to rent or buy a loft (which I don’t want) nor can I really afford the CWE/Loop area in terms of good apartments/houses at this time.
I did live in Maplewood for three years and loved it. Urban infused for sure, a community, 10 minutes to many of my favorite things to do in the city, and only 20 minutes from my family. Then my world turned upside down and I’m back in the ‘burbs which is where I grew up. It should be noted that when I grew up in the ‘burbs there were frequent trips to south city for Hodak’s chicken, to Forest Park, to Busch Stadium, to CWE/the Loop and much more. My parents were NYC-ites so they like to be out and about!
I think that when I buy my own place, it will likely be in one of three of the “burbs” all in mid-county St. Louis so again, there will be urban infusion, a nice community feel but not too much one way or the other. Now if only the price could be right… ;-)
August 31st, 2010 at 9:36 am
I live in the largest metropolitan area in South Dakota. And that’s not saying much. I can’t live in the city. I just can’t. The constant “on-ness” that happens in a city wears me out. When I visit NYC, I’m thrilled, but exhausted by day 2, just being out and about in it. So, country life it is for me…
August 31st, 2010 at 9:52 am
Move to Denver! You can live downtown for a MUCH more affordable price. And then our babies can be besties!
August 31st, 2010 at 10:12 am
It’s actually the same here in Virginia. Suburbs are very vanilla. I’m guessing a lot of major cities with their surrounding suburbs are the same throughout the country. What I like about the suburbs here is that they are very much like the countryside and peaceful.
That being said I don’t think I could live in the suburbs just yet mainly because I don’t have a car (can’t afford one), I’m close to the metro, and I love the diversity around me. I grew up with diversity (especially when I lived in Saudi Arabia) so it’s very difficult for me to be around people that are basically all the same.
When it comes to having a family though, kids’ schools, etc., I can see how a lot more factors come into play. I really hope you find all that is good for little grasshopper and for the two of you!
August 31st, 2010 at 10:21 am
I get overwhelmed by BIG cities (Chicago-sized cities). The city I live in right now (population approx. 80,000) is perfect for me but probably seems small to you. But it’s big enough that I still feel like it’s a “city” (I did grow up in a “city” with a population of 20,000 after all) but it’s not so big I feel overwhelmed!
All that being said, when searching for a new place in my current city location was SO important for me because I DIDN’T want to be way out of town in the suburbs, I wanted to be close to work and downtown.
August 31st, 2010 at 10:39 am
I would love to live in Evanston again. Maybe you are looking there?
We moved way out here because it feels like home to me. We could afford a nice house with more than one bathroom and it didn’t need a ton of work. We have a cute downtown area, lots of conveniences, a small town feel but with a larger population. Tons of ways to get involved in the community. Lots of community pride. Decent schools. I mourn that there is little to no diversity. But nearby we do have a little. We can go to parks not too far away and find people of different races and backgrounds. Still not the same, but at least we’ve got that.
August 31st, 2010 at 10:42 am
I (and the Boy) live a neighbourhood right in the middle of the city, in a lovely mixed neighbourhood with everything we need on the doorstep. I have a 20 minute walk to work and a park right out side my door and a good school a block away. Its perfect for staying our lives in (and raising a family)
The only problem -- we live in a 1-bed flat (which I own admittedly) but we could not afford to buy one of the houses next door. Or even a 2 bed in this neighbourhood. So we will have to move. All of the good neighbourhoods are the same here, young families are squeezed out to commuting suburbs and the flats are taken over by couples and students, or rich people with kids anyway.
Its depressing thinking that i shall have to leave the place I love to have a family -- maybe thats one reason I am putting it off despite being in my 30s!
August 31st, 2010 at 11:10 am
I live in the city. I grew up in the suburbs. I feel like the suburbs around Atlanta are like empty, awful shells on the wonder of the city. I can’t imagine ever living outside of the city in the suburbs. I love my neighborhood, it has history and it’s just awesome. I can’t imagine moving away from everything out there.
August 31st, 2010 at 11:42 am
I lived in a distant suburb for 5 months and it wasn’t right for me. I live in the city because when I moved to the area I was single and in my 20s. Since my boyfriend and I are not planning on starting a family soon, we stay in the city. Some day though, we may need more room and good schools and that is why I’d move to the ‘burbs.
The Chicago suburb I like is Evanston. It sometimes feels like a Chicago neighborhood, not a separate town to me…
August 31st, 2010 at 12:15 pm
I was just talking to Mr. D about this over the weekend. Since we’re older (probably close to 40 when we buy a house) we want it to be something sizable that we can live in for the rest of our days. We both are playing around with the idea of being self-employed in our 40s too so we want it to be spacious enough that we can have offices out of it and not step on each other. I’m enjoying my urban living experience right now but I think we’ll end up farther out when it comes time to buy. We haven’t even begun to look at neighborhoods yet. There’s a lot to consider! It’s a big decision and I can see why you would be torn.
August 31st, 2010 at 1:38 pm
I grew up in a very vanilla suburb. The vanilla-est of suburbs. It turned me off suburbs, to be honest. I’ve lived in downtown Vancouver(which I loved but could only afford to rent there) and a tiny village in England (which I also loved but part of my enjoyment came from knowing it was temporary.) We’re living in a city right now but it’s not the city we want to live in for much longer. We bought in our neighbourhood (part of Metro Vancouver) because it was a transition neighbourhood -- a lot of crime and drugs but also a lot of development. We’ve made the decision to stay in our condo for another 2 years so we can fully realize the benefits of buying in a transition neighbourhood but then we are outta there. We’re torn between city and suburbs -- like you and Sweets, a lottery win would be necessary for us to be able to afford a house in the city. Right now we can’t even afford a shoebox-sized condo right downtown (which is where we would want to be, if we gave up on the dream of owning a house.) We don’t have kids and we’re not sure that we ever will, so the dream of owning a house (I lust after vegetable gardens and laundry rooms -- not stacked washer and driers in a closet) is not really reasonable.
August 31st, 2010 at 2:00 pm
I’m in the most vanilla suburb ever. Even though there is racial diversity, it’s still the most boring, bland, homogeneous location possible. But I love it. I miss having city amenities within walking distance (I loathe having to drive everywhere) and the lack of food delivery options makes me weep, but after 3 years in the NY metro area, I’m pleased as punch to have: quiet, quiet, quiet, and more quiet. Oh, and not sharing walls. Or floors or ceilings. I love that I live on a street nicknamed Sesame Street in the community because there are so many kids--we actually have kids who play in the middle of the road and set up lemonade stands and run around to their friends houses “unsupervised”. It’s a great place for a family. And when I need the city, San Diego is 45 minutes away (or there’s LA, for when I’m really insane).
I do wish, though, that there was a way to get THAT and have the walkable-ness of the city.
August 31st, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Hazel and I live in the suburbs but we both love city life. If we could afford it, we’d move back into the center of Phoenix in a heartbeat. Just something about being in a city that we love.
August 31st, 2010 at 2:18 pm
When I bought my condo back in 2005, the market was close to peaking (wish I would have known that then…) so I was limited by my price range and sort of forced to buy out in the ‘burbs. But I was so sure that I wanted to own something so I gave up my fabulous downtown apartment for a small condo in the suburbs… Of course, looking back, I regret buying but hindsight is always 20/20. I miss my 15th floor downtown view apt… But… I do live in a really beautiful area of Minneapolis. I’m 20 minutes from downtown. There is a lake 3 miles away and miles of biking & walking trails very close by. So it’s not terrible. I am just sort of ‘over it’. But I am stuck here until the market re-bounds… Or until I decide to rent out my condo and maybe move to a different city, but that won’t be happening any time soon…
Even though owning a condo that has tanked in value has been a stressful/sickening experience, it’s also been very educational. I think my next purchase will be a lot ‘smarter’ and I will know what I really want/need in my next home.
August 31st, 2010 at 2:21 pm
this is one reason i love dc metro… i’m technically in a “suburb” since i’m in VA, but i can see the metro from my house and can be downtown in 15 minutes… but can also move just 2 blocks out and have a house. (i mean, assuming i one day can afford to own a house ahahahahahaaaaaa.)
August 31st, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Hollywood’s a lovely suburb of LA -- maybe you could move here. ;)
I can’t say I exactly “chose” the suburb I live in, considering my grandmother’s father helped develop it. But when I met Mr. W and found out where he lived, I was ecstatic. His area is one of my favorites in Hollywood. Up the hill, among nicer houses -- but totally close to the grit and great vibe of the city.
August 31st, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Right now I live in the city and I love it. It’s perfect for me. But yes, if I had a family, I would probably reconsider because of the space and costs. IT is different when it comes to kids.
August 31st, 2010 at 10:49 pm
well now i want to know which suburb!!
i choose to stay in the city because cleveland’s a plum wouldn’t be the same if i didn’t :)
(that’s only part of the reason, haha)
as you know i’m buying a condo, so i’ve been thinking a lot about location/why/etc and the main reason for my choice is that i think the area of cleveland i’m hopefully moving into is safe yet diverse, close to the city but still feels like a neighborhood, still up and coming so the price is right and i can get more for my money.
i could continue.. ha
September 1st, 2010 at 1:19 am
I’ve lived in a suburb my entire life but Matt and I finally moved to the city (which I call “real” L.A. or L.A. L.A.). It feels different. I feel like every weekend, or every night even, is an opportunity to explore. We’re always on Yelp and food blogs searching for new places and the options are really limitless. It’s no longer a huge chore to go out to dinner or out with friends. BUT I’m pretty sure that once we try to buy a house, it will be back in the suburbs, probably near our parents. It’s a 20 minute drive from where we live now (an hour-plus in traffic). I don’t think I’ll be too sad about it. Though I say that now. I’ll probably be kicking and screaming when the time comes.
September 1st, 2010 at 8:53 am
I don’t even live in the suburbs. You would probably consider where I live the country, even though its a small town. While this was a great place to grow up, I’m thinking that I would do well in a small big city or a suburb community of a big city that still had a very urban feel to it.
September 1st, 2010 at 9:08 am
The city vs. suburbs was a huge debate for us. We bought a house in the city back when we could afford it and now, with the economy tanking Tim’s business (slowly improving but DAMN, it’s been hard), it’s gotten tough. Unfortunately, we can’t move unless we want to lose over $150k on this house. So we’re staying put and holding on.
On the bright side, we chose a house with a great school at the end of our block, in a lovely neighborhood that feels quaint inside of the big city, we have some great neighbors, lots of kids running around, and within walking distance to pretty much everything we could need. It’s pretty much ideal as far as city-living goes.
We’re really happy with where we are and now I just need to get my head around the fact that we’re city people. Having grown up in the suburbs, I think I will always feel like a suburban girl trying to “make it” in the big city. But as long as I have neighbors like you, I’ll be ok :)
September 2nd, 2010 at 10:22 am
The nice thing about the Chicago suburbs is that they are as diverse as the city itself. We love our little residential suburb. We have a huge park with soccer and baseball fields just a walk away. Our neighborhood is amazingly diverse, and we have the best sushi restaurant I’ve ever been to. Just to the north of us, the suburb is largely Hispanic. Five minutes to the south is just about as white-bread as you can get. What I love is that, for a 10 minute drive, I can get to experience any and all of these places. If you choose to go suburban, you can find what you’re looking for.
September 3rd, 2010 at 12:58 pm
I’m curious which suburbs made your cut- simply because you know that I grew up in the burbs of Chicago and I’m pretty sure that my town wouldn’t have made the cut.
CP and I briefly discussed moving back to Chicago a few years ago. We decided that with the traffic it would be too difficult and couldn’t see ourselves living downtown once we had kids.
September 4th, 2010 at 12:42 am
I’m definitely a city girl, a BIG city girl. I had my share of suburbs and towns when I was a kid, but from age 10 or so onward it was big city all the way. I’m so used to it that now living in Lakeview feels totally like the suburbs to me. But I understand the pull. I’ve always said that for my kids (whenever I have them) would be the only reason I’d move to the burbs. I now think that for a better quality of life, i.e. more space for less money, I would do so too. It’s a tough decision to make. I feel your pain.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:10 am
I didn’t really choose where I currently live since I moved in with my then girlfriend and now my wife 9 years ago. She had lived in the house some 13 years before that. We live in the Salt Lake valley in a city called Taylorsville, which is about 12 miles from downtown. Both my wife and I are about 4 miles from work, in different directions. If I ride my scooter, it takes me about 12 mins to get to work. I like being not too far west and pretty close to shopping, downtown and other areas of the valley.